cereal makers use a curious strategy called “shelf saturation” to increase their sales. the theory goes like this: it doesn't matter if you make 50 brands of cereal, even if they essentially compete with one another–the important thing is to saturate as much shelf space as possible, as research has shown that the more cereal “versions” you have, the greater the chances of getting a sale.
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that's why it's odd when it looks like microsoft is taking a page from general mills' playbook by releasing the upcoming windows vista in not one, not two, not three, not even four, 5, or 6 versions. no, vista is going to be out there in 7 different flavors, each one vying for time on your busy eyeball.
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going from bottom to top in the list of features, capability, and (most likely) price, the first stop is windows vista starter edition. structured much like the current windows xp starter edition, wvse limits users to three concurrent applications, only the most basic networking functions, and lacks bells and whistles likely to be needed by games. it will, however, be the cheapest possible entry point into the vista universe.
going up one notch will get you windows vista home basic. wvhb is most easily described as the vista version of windows xp home edition. it lacks business-oriented features like the ability to join an active directory domain, but generally features all a home user might want or need.
or so you might think until you've seen windows vista home premium edition. microsoft exec steve ballmer hinted last month that various “premium” editions of microsoft products would be bubbling up soon, and this one is the first. wvhpe improves upon wvhb by adding an amazing array of home entertainment-oriented doo-dads such as hdtv support, dvd authoring tools, and much of what is currently found in windows xp media center edition.
turning now to the business side of things, we get windows vista professional edition. but don't think wvpe is merely windows xp professional with a new interface. much of the home-entertainment feature set is excised from wvhpe, but things like support for non-microsoft network protocols and the ability to join an active directory domain are added. it remains to be seen how much “gaming” meat will be left in wvpe, though, meaning current windows xp professional users might be better served with wvhb, or wvhpe for those with twitchy mouse habits.
but just so business users aren't left with only one choice, microsoft further adds windows vista small business edition and windows vista enterprise edition. wvsbe sticks with its small-office target market by taking wvpe and adding on things like an integrated network backup tool, whereas wvee adds virtualization technology and the ability to encrypt entire disk volumes.
but wait, there's more! for those who truly must have the biggest and baddest (and most expensive) option on every list, there's windows vista ultimate edition. wvue takes the best portions of wvhpe and wvpe and melds them with “game performance tweaker,” aimed at hardcore gamers. additionally, tools for creating your own podcasts will be included, and several other add-ons are also under consideration.
business-oriented versions should continue to be available under the volume license key agreements that allow windows to be used without activation. attempting to curb piracy, microsoft will not sell any “home” version of vista with “optional” activation.
all vista versions are expected to be available in both 32-bit and 64-bit versions. microsoft indicates that this will be the last os it makes for 32-bit systems, with everything after vista to be 64-bit only.
windows it pro has more on this if you're still hungry for details.
eric's opinion
some might say 7 is a lucky number, but in this case i think this bewildering array of segmentation is going to work against windows, not for it. your average consumer isn't going to grasp the subtle differences in the various home versions, and your average business user isn't going to care for the knick-knacks in wvsbe or the high-cost options of wvee. starter edition might seem attractive due to a presumably low price, but the limitations of it are going to be felt rather early to any but the most casual users. when you consider that even spending us$300 on an os you'll likely use over a three-year period (that's $8.30 per month, less than you spend on gas in a week), saving $25 or $50 on an os purchase doesn't make a lot of sense.
some might say 7 is a lucky number, but in this case i think this bewildering array of segmentation is going to work against windows, not for it. your average consumer isn't going to grasp the subtle differences in the various home versions, and your average business user isn't going to care for the knick-knacks in wvsbe or the high-cost options of wvee. starter edition might seem attractive due to a presumably low price, but the limitations of it are going to be felt rather early to any but the most casual users. when you consider that even spending us$300 on an os you'll likely use over a three-year period (that's $8.30 per month, less than you spend on gas in a week), saving $25 or $50 on an os purchase doesn't make a lot of sense.
my predictions: windows vista home basic will become the de facto home-based installation, just as xp home currently is. windows vista professional edition will become the de facto business os, just as xp pro is now. the rest will occupy niche markets, and their various special features will receive little recognition from third-party software and content developers, resulting in the eventual demise of these marginal versions.
unless microsoft plans some radical price alterations–both up and down–there just isn't much rationale for more than two versions of windows.
user comments 151 comment(s)
oems(7:47am est tue sep 13 2005) for those people out there who like to purchase their pcs from best buy/futureshop, or staples etc, they will likely get the home basic version and then call up friends and family like me asking why they can' t="" do="" a="" bunch="" of="" things….great.=""> |
super nuclear spicy…(7:53am est tue sep 13 2005) will likely be the exact opposite of vista. how about ' underwhelming,="" impotent="" and="" bland?'=""> |
go with the most basic(8:00am est tue sep 13 2005) i intend to go with the most basic vista version and go to other vendors for additional functionality. of course that is only if i but a new pc which is highly unlikely as i am changing everything over to apple. the five pc' s="" in="" my="" house="" are="" on="" their="" way="" out.=""> |
hmm(8:00am est tue sep 13 2005) is there going to be an exploitable version….wait that would be all of them. – by submit |
this aint now different than linux(8:12am est tue sep 13 2005) there are about 900 versions, from floppy size to bring on the bluray disk already. i doubt starter will even be retail, thats the 3rd world version. of course i think it seems odd that ms wants this home domination, but leave out ldap authentication mechanisms, just what we need some lanman/samba crap for another 4 years – by steve blo jobs |
re: systems integrator(8:12am est tue sep 13 2005) you' re="" right,="" for="" those="" of="" us="" who="" are="" the="" family="" or="" friend="" geek,="" it="" will="" be="" very="" tedious="" dealing="" with="" the="" computer="" illertare="" who="" expect="" us="" to="" know="" and="" fix="" everything.=""> |
disagree(8:21am est tue sep 13 2005) eric, the old strategy is: divide et impera! (divide and rule) the more “stuff” you are dumping out on the customers, the more their mind is set “choosing” the “correct” edition/ms product. looking at “network protocols” being made available on a piece meal basis, locking the less savy consuming masses out of basic network access to m$' s="" benefit,="" can="" only="" be="" called="" one="" thing="" at="" work:=""> |
hahahahaha(8:26am est tue sep 13 2005) are you kidding me with this…….way to confuse the consumers microsoft. in our lifetime……….we will all see microsoft fall from its top superpower position. its a fact. count on it. – by mini vanilli |
wtf(9:08am est tue sep 13 2005) this is crazy, seven versions? why not just a “home” version and a “business” version. i can understand a variety of versions for their server line, since a server' s="" purpose="" can="" be="" very="" specific="" and="" a="" business="" can="" save="" money="" by="" purchasing="" the="" approriate="" version="" of="" the="" os="" to="" meet="" their=""> |
gaming edition(9:09am est tue sep 13 2005) they (microsoft) is so stupid. just make a rocket fast gaming edition, for the best game performance, don' t="" call="" it="" “windows="" vista="" ultimate="" edition”="" call="" it="" windows="" ge=""> |
good grief!(9:13am est tue sep 13 2005) > this is crazy, seven versions? why not just a “home” version and a “business” version. geeks have been ranting and raving about how ms forces you to pay for things you don' t="" need="" or="" want.="" now="" that="" they="" are="" giving="" you="" a="" wide="" choice,="" y'all="" are="" complaining="" about="" how="" complicated="" it="" is.="" be="" careful="" what="" you="" wish="" for,="" it="" might="" just="" come=""> |
the unmagnificent 7(9:17am est tue sep 13 2005) vista basic – nothing useful but has ie 7: $89 vista plus – nothing useful but has ie 7: $99 vista bronze – nothing useful but has ie 7: $119 vista silver – nothing useful but has ie 7: $149 vista gold – nothing useful but has ie 7: $179 vista pro – nothing useful but has ie 7: $209 vista server – iis and ie 7: starting at $999 or, i could get a ton of features and packages with more security for a lower cost and not have to worry about a worm-ridden, bug-infested, spyware-magnet browser entwined with the os by using linux or bsd. – by theg00ch |
re: theg00ch(9:32am est tue sep 13 2005) “or, i could get a ton of features and packages with more security for a lower cost and not have to worry about a worm-ridden, bug-infested, spyware-magnet browser entwined with the os by using linux or bsd.” and as an added bonus, you can forget about running 99.9% of available games, you can forget about running any of the top 20 productivity applications, and you can have the joy of figuring out why your latest whizz-bang app won' t="" compile="" with=""> |
thegooch(9:44am est tue sep 13 2005) i have made it through the trenches with linux, but, im happier. it definaletly can be easy depending on which distro you pick. i picked fc3, and it took me lots of pain to get everything working. but, now that everything works, im much happier with it then windows. and in the whole process has been a learning experience. some things are much easier on linux then windows, other things on windows are more easier then linux. eric – i tried fc4 for one day, and after 20 different packages wouldnt compile with gcc4, i trashed it, and now im using an lfs version. much faster! but, not for the faint of heart. – by chuckycheese |
windows vista(9:49am est tue sep 13 2005) does anyone at m$ remember one of the greatest rules of marketing to the consumer? k.i.s.s. windows vista home edition windows vista ultimate edition windows vista small business edition windows vista enterprise edition m$, pull your heads out of you arses before you make yourselves look silly w/this launch… – by tyjk |
unlucky 13(9:52am est tue sep 13 2005) actually, it looks like there will be 13 versions of vista, since all but wvse will have *both* 32-bit and 64-bit versions. i' ll="" bet="" sales="" managers="" at="" retail="" shops="" around="" the="" country="" are="" drooling="" at="" the="" prospects="" offered="" by="" these="" 'choices'.=""> |
vista forums(9:54am est tue sep 13 2005) hello guys a bit off-topic but wanted to share a great windows vista community that i found the other day. it' s="" seems="" that="" it's="" curently="" the="" most="" active="" windows="" vista="" forums="" that's=""> |
j. eric…(9:55am est tue sep 13 2005) since when do you care about games? just change it to: “”or, i could get a ton of features and packages with more security for a lower cost and not have to worry about a worm-ridden, bug-infested, spyware-magnet browser entwined with the os by using os x.” and suddenly everything makes perfect sense. – by switch already! |
i want the vista legacy(10:05am est tue sep 13 2005) for my old but reliable dos programs. – by yeah |
i see 6(10:15am est tue sep 13 2005) i dont even count the starter edition. that version will only be sold to developing regions (so they say), so we will only see 6 versions over here – by moi |
vista(10:20am est tue sep 13 2005) what we would really like to se is a vista game edition. that would make sense!!!! – by goofy |
out of necessity(10:22am est tue sep 13 2005) with all the lawsuits and government pressure (re stupid eu), ms decided a pre-emptive strike against more lawsuits by catering to all aspects of consumers. by offering everything from a basic no-frills version to an extreme edition, they are simply preventing the eu from bitching and complaining about the lack of choice in ms software and features. also, while windows has always had an ability to add or remove components (in one form or another), the bottom line is that few consumers actually bothered to select which windows components to install, and few hate being given a long list of choices that add another 5-10 minutes to an installation. ms is kind of forced into releasing streamlined pre-configured versions to cater to consumer demand. while i think it is overkill to fragment a product like this, its because both consumers and governments have bitched and complained about every windows release, and will continue to do so. ms is firmly wedged in a condition where they can' t="" please="" all="" the="" people="" all="" of="" the="" time,="" so="" they="" have="" to="" cater="" to="" special="" interest="" groups="" that="" will="" complain="" loudly="" if="" ms="" doesn't="" do="" it="" exclusively="" their=""> |
re: eric(10:28am est tue sep 13 2005) “…all of the office clones come with significant interoperability caveats.” only because of ms refusal to use standards and/or refusal to document and make available their own standard. – by old sampler |
so basically(10:38am est tue sep 13 2005) when i' m="" looking="" for="" which="" torrent="" to="" download…="" i="" want="" the="" ultimate="" edition="" one.=""> |
re: gei(10:48am est tue sep 13 2005) that' s="" right=""> |
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i don' t="" want="" extreme=""> |
windows people in the dark literally :)(11:05am est tue sep 13 2005) – by laafternoonblackout |
sheep scare(11:06am est tue sep 13 2005) ok clam down thats right your going to have to make a choice.linux users have been doing that for years .theres over 200 linux systems out there.first you read about the system see if it covers your needs.then you buy it.if your not happy with the system you bought. you buy the next up system.if your not happy with that you keep buying till you reach system number 7.after 7 and your still not happy switch to linux. – by king tux |
re: old sampler(11:10am est tue sep 13 2005) “only because of ms refusal to use standards and/or refusal to document and make available their own standard.” well, duh. if you read my entire post you' ll="" see="" i="" acknowledged="" that=""> |
j. eric…(12:05pm est tue sep 13 2005) well once again, another issue that can be solved by… wait for it…running microsoft office on os x. – by switch already! |
wasn' t="" one="" complaint="" about="" linux="" “too="" many=""> |
what' s="" the="" big=""> |
crap(12:22pm est tue sep 13 2005) how about windows vista: the no virus edition windows vista: the no crash edition those would be cool. – by roland |
writings on the wall(12:31pm est tue sep 13 2005) linuxs is in windows is out. – by neo |
i' m=""> |
ms is going to win those markets because of this “marketing”?(12:36pm est tue sep 13 2005) i thought ms wins because of “marketing” genus? if ms wasn' t="" allowed="" to="" tax="" oem="" and="" dell="" had="" to="" sell="" a="" pc="" with="" linux="" for="" the="" same="" price="" as="" no="" os,="" $200,="" and="" sell="" a="" pc="" with="" vista="" for="" $1200,="" who="" would=""> |
7 versions?!?!(12:45pm est tue sep 13 2005) pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff ffffffffffff – by tt |
re: tech(12:52pm est tue sep 13 2005) you keep spouting the same, tired lines over and over again, as if bashing your head against the wall will someday cause it to fall down. it' s="" a="" pity="" you="" don't="" turn="" your="" energies="" towards="" something="" more="" constructive="" and="" useful.="" instead,="" you="" waste="" them="" all="" on="" being="" the="" zealot="" that="" must="" tell="" the="" world="" that="" it="" is="" crazy,="" but="" that="" *you*="" are="" sane="" and="" therefore="" must="" be="" worshipped="" as="" a="" prophet="" of="" operating="" systems.="" it="" didn't="" sound="" any="" less="" loony="" the="" first="" time="" you="" said="" it,="" and="" you're="" definitely="" not="" improving="" with="" time.="" perhaps="" you="" should="" try="" some=""> |
re gei(1:09pm est tue sep 13 2005) gei is a pirate quick someone call the guards dont let him get away he said the pirate code word torrent. – by captain bly |
j. eric smith(1:15pm est tue sep 13 2005) wasn' t="" it="" you="" complained="" that="" linux="" has="" too="" many=""> |
re captain bly(1:15pm est tue sep 13 2005) aye' i="" have="" seen="" gei="" at="" pirates="" bay="" he="" is="" a="" crafty="" pirate="" you="" ll="" never="" capture="" him.argg=""> |
7 systems(1:20pm est tue sep 13 2005) im not going to buy seven systems is gates gone nuts.lets see if its $100 a system thats 700 bucks screw that.linux here i come. – by x gates fan |
re: eric(1:20pm est tue sep 13 2005) “…autocad comes to mind…” i' m="" not="" an="" expert,="" but="" can't="" brl-cad="" import/export="" autocad="" files?="" i'm="" not="" familar="" with="" the="" sfa="" acronym=""> |
re: re: tech(1:23pm est tue sep 13 2005) eric, well said. the thing about common-sense is that it' s="" just="" not="" so="" common.="" especially,="" it="" seems,="" in="" the="" “geek”=""> |
blackbeard(1:24pm est tue sep 13 2005) gei is no pirate, he is just a bit torrent down loader. i on the other hand will walk into microsoft hq and walk out with 3 copies under my coat. – by captain blood |
re: rax(1:27pm est tue sep 13 2005) “wasn' t="" it="" you="" complained="" that="" linux="" has="" too="" many=""> |
re: systems integrator(1:30pm est tue sep 13 2005) “why don' t="" you="" “linux="" fundamentalists”="" start="" a="" mosque="" or="" something="" and="" let="" alone="" we="" infidels="" who="" happen="" to="" get="" a="" lot="" of="" use="" windows="" and=""> |
re: rax(1:30pm est tue sep 13 2005) “looks like the guys(and gals) at microsoft are copying linux in a backwards sort of way.” microsoft is making one of its server products more linux compatible. they are dropping sfu (services for unix) and having that function integrated so windows understand many unix commands. why would you want windows server to use *nix commands, when you can get linux? – by linux user |
systems integrator(1:31pm est tue sep 13 2005) because you are wrong and must be forced to see the light. linux is better and free is even better. now a day when you say a linux guy what time it is they tell you the time, they no longer tell you how to build a clock unless you ask them that too. don' t="" just="" be="" an="" intergrator="" be="" an=""> |
re: eric(1:33pm est tue sep 13 2005) “.microsoft *is* a de facto standard that *must* be taken into account.” can' t="" be="" a="" standard="" without="" being=""> |
when you start with the personal attack. it means you' re=""> |
re: old sampler(1:39pm est tue sep 13 2005) “i' m="" not="" an="" expert,="" but="" can't="" brl-cad="" import/export="" autocad="" files?="" i'm="" not="" familar="" with="" the="" sfa="" acronym=""> |
re: old sampler(1:41pm est tue sep 13 2005) “can' t="" be="" a="" standard="" without="" being=""> |
j. eric smith(1:41pm est tue sep 13 2005) i think that microsoft will controller the desktop for the next 5 years and maybe more. on the database server side i think linux has taken a firm foot hold and may push microsoft out of that arena first. we were looking at the oracle grid to replace our current database cluster because it is faster and more flexible, cheaper to buy and maintain. using a stack of x86 boxes, linux and oracle 10g might be the way of the future. – by rax |
xp vs win2000(1:49pm est tue sep 13 2005) i just got a new notebook from the company i work for and i have to say the xp locks up often. at least every 2 days i need to reboot it because it locks up. i never had this problem with win2000, in fact win2000 was a dream when compared to xp. it make me wonder if microsoft is going backwards. i miss win2000 but my company will not load it anymore. – by dinobot |
re: tech(1:51pm est tue sep 13 2005) “we use autocad on w2k (really we use autolisp), and we still use wp.” then you must be using windows at your company. traitor! how dare you! you should be burned at the stake for not dumping all your useful, functional, paid-for, well-understood software and going with some free, poorly-documented, poorly-supported, barely-out-of-alpha foss solution! “i' m="" not="" going="" to="" post="" the="" links="" again="" that="" show="" that="" the="" difference="" between="" gimp="" and="" photoshop="" is="" a="" line="" between="" pull="" down="" menu=""> |
re: eric(1:57pm est tue sep 13 2005) “everyone *wishes* they weren' t="" locked="" in,="" but="" nobody="" is="" willing="" to="" sacrifice="" functionality="" to="" move="" to="" another=""> |
7 versions(1:57pm est tue sep 13 2005) this is your brain, this is your brain on drugs! – by publicservice |
re: rax(1:58pm est tue sep 13 2005) “i think that microsoft will controller the desktop for the next 5 years and maybe more.” i would agree. it will be interesting to see how vista moves forward. honestly, i don' t="" see="" a="" lot="" in="" it="" to="" draw="" people="" into="" buying="" it.="" that="" might="" change="" if="" microsoft="" gets="" serious="" about="" enforcing="" least-privilege="" user="" concepts="" and="" locking="" down="" the="" os="" even="" more,="" but="" as="" it="" stands="" now,="" it="" looks="" like="" xp="" with="" a="" gaudy="" new="" interface.=""> |
i wonder(2:02pm est tue sep 13 2005) i wonder what trick microsoft will used to force us to buy this new crap. just so they know windows 98 is still working great for me. – by trader joe |
re: old sampler(2:04pm est tue sep 13 2005) “not true. there are more and more cities, countries and even us states that are refusing or in the process of refusing such lock-in.” they still represent a tiny, almost insignificant fraction of the overall software market. you are doing your usual good job of exaggerating almost to the point of fabrication in order to support your unsupportable argument. “it is also not true that you are losing functionality. that is an opinion.” again, you demonstrate your inability to grasp the mechanics of the english language. if i can perform function x in microsoft word but cannot perform function x in openoffice, i have “lost functionality.” i cannot use any application that uses ole/dde links to a ms office application unless i *have* that application. openoffice will not perform the same function, therefore i have *lost functionality*. i mean, really, how stupid do you have to be to not be able to understand such a simple concept? “and if you don' t="" like="" the="" definition="" of="" “standard”="" don't="" use=""> |
re: j. eric smith(2:08pm est tue sep 13 2005) tell your solaris gurus that oracle grid also runs on solaris and sparc servers. i bet that will make them sing a new tune :) – by rax |
all hail(2:10pm est tue sep 13 2005) 3 cheers for eric for going toe-to-toe with the open-source jihad fanatics. let ' em="" have="" it.=""> |
re>captain blood(2:16pm est tue sep 13 2005) aye' i="" heard="" of="" ya="" darn="" good="" pirate="" a="" credit="" to="" the="" hackers="" world.may="" your="" downloads="" always="" be="" quick="" and="" files="" be="" plenty.argg=""> |
re:blackbeard(2:42pm est tue sep 13 2005) and may the sea of the internet flow red with the blood of windows developers and their code. – by captain blood |
re:junkthemagicdragon(2:44pm est tue sep 13 2005) toe to toe but no knock out blow. – by new orleans |
re: eric(2:47pm est tue sep 13 2005) “i cannot use any application that uses ole/dde links to a ms office application unless i *have* that application. openoffice will not perform the same function, therefore i have *lost functionality*.” ah… so you were talking about outside of office to an undocumented interface into office. sorry about that – i thought you were talking about office itself. and again, you refer to an undocumented ms standard. so why buy a standard anything? only use “defacto standards”…which would be incompatable with each other. you end up paying thousands for something that should only cost hundreds. and you won' t="" own="" your="" data-="" which="" you="" probably="" don't=""> |
old sampler(2:49pm est tue sep 13 2005) just shut the heck up. – by right winger |
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eric….(2:50pm est tue sep 13 2005) don' t="" beat="" around="" the="" bush,="" tell="" tech="" what="" you="" really=""> |
re: pitviper(2:53pm est tue sep 13 2005) i would, but he couldn' t="" handle="" the="" truth.=""> |
just glancing…(2:58pm est tue sep 13 2005) over this thread and thinking ' i="" certainly="" hope="" j.="" eric="" is="" not="" being="" payed="" to="" be="" doing="" something="" else="" right="" now',="" because="" holy="" crap="" dude,="" get="" a="" life!="" how="" many="" long-winded,="" incoherent="" speeches="" can="" you="" spit="" out="" of="" your="" keyboard="" in="" an="" eight="" hour="" day?="" or="" do="" you="" literally="" get="" paid="" by="" microsoft="" to="" sit="" there="" and="" be="" a="" cheerleader="" to="" the="" other="" 14="" year="" olds="" on="" this=""> |
re captain blood(3:00pm est tue sep 13 2005) uhh' i="" think="" i="" hear="" my="" mother="" calling="" got="" to="" go="" now.[man'="" that="" captain="" blood="" is="" one="" scary="" pirate]=""> |
jes has a point(3:10pm est tue sep 13 2005) i' m="" no="" fan="" of="" windows,="" but="" i="" would="" rather="" fly="" than="" drive="" too.="" just="" like="" eric's="" long="" winded="" replys,="" he's="" got="" a="" point.="" i="" don't="" play="" many="" games="" but="" where="" would="" games="" be="" without="" windows.="" a="" major="" driving="" force="" in="" pushing="" systems="" to="" be="" faster,="" that="" also="" drive="" servers="" to="" be="" faster.="" most="" of="" what="" i="" read="" seems="" to="" be="" dribble="" i="" wish="" someone="" would="" just="" edit="" this="" @r@p="" out.="" like="" my="" own="" reply.="" cant="" wait="" for="" os="" x="" for="" x86="" so="" i="" multi="" boot="" again.="" yadda="" yadda="" windows="" sucks="" but="" then="" again="" it="" doesnt="" and="" what="" can="" you="" do.="" my="" car="" sucks="" too="" and="" i="" dont="" see="" anyone="" bitching="" 'bout="" them.="" i="" also="" would="" like="" to="" see="" anti-trust="" deals="" going="" on="" that="" i="" cant="" use="" a="" ford="" head="" on="" chevy="" block="" with="" honda="" transmission="" because="" they're="" all="" proprietary.="" damb="" them,="" damb="" them="" all…=""> |
obviously, we use linux with windows(3:17pm est tue sep 13 2005) “there are major compatibility hurdles you have to overcome if you plan on doing any sort of 2-way interaction with anyone on a windows platform, and right now, that' s="" pretty="" much="" everybody.="" admittedly,="" microsoft="" has="" gone="" out="" of="" its="" way="" to="" make="" sure="" linux/bsd="" is="" as="" incompatible="" as="" possible,="" but="" that="" doesn't="" change="" the="" fact="" that="" it="" *is*="" very="" difficult.”="" was="" your=""> |
re: tech(3:28pm est tue sep 13 2005) you are incoherent. are you on drugs or something? – by j. eric smith |
wtf(3:29pm est tue sep 13 2005) i just found out that i' m="" a="" pirate.i="" bought="" microsoft="" office="" and="" installed="" it="" in="" three="" of="" my="" machines.someone="" reported="" that.i="" got="" a="" call="" saying="" to="" uninstall="" it="" from="" two="" of="" my="" computers="" and="" to="" buy="" two="" copies="" of="" office="" for="" them.is="" this="" a="" joke="" or="" what.=""> |
re tech(3:32pm est tue sep 13 2005) hey man i' ll="" have="" what="" he's="" smoking.=""> |
re: tech(3:33pm est tue sep 13 2005) next you' ll="" be="" screaming="" the="" fires="" of="" damnation="" will="" sear="" my="" soul,="" and="" that="" the="" everlasting="" brimstone="" of="" linux="" will="" cast="" me="" out="" as="" a=""> |
communication?(3:48pm est tue sep 13 2005) i think having 7 versions is a situation where legal didn' t="" communicate="" with=""> |
j. eric smith(3:53pm est tue sep 13 2005) the fires of damnation will sear your soul, and the everlasting brimstone of linux will cast you out as the devil. tech revelation 5:22 – by the anti-tech |
do you have anything to say about (3:58pm est tue sep 13 2005) “windows vista to come in 7 versions” or are you hoping that personal attacks will prove anything. we use dsl to boot from usb, knoppix to boot from cd, mepis for dual boot from hd and suse for os replacement/desktop to boot from hd. i use std for security, mosix for clustering, xen for virtualization, the ultimate boot disc for recovery, and open pass for password resets. they all have different purposes. they are not broken or have features turned off to create versions. i like the fact that linux has different versions because we have uses for them. i guess your points are: unless microsoft plans some radical price alterations–both up and down–there just isn' t="" much="" rationale="" for="" more="" than="" two="" versions="" of=""> |
tech(4:01pm est tue sep 13 2005) see i knew the devil would come up in there somewhere. – by the anti-tech |
re: tech(4:02pm est tue sep 13 2005) “your readers will decide what kind of person you are and how much of what you have to say is believable.” and as long as they have you to compare me to, i have nothing to fear at all. – by j. eric smith |
vista is a great name for it(4:03pm est tue sep 13 2005) hacker have already had a good look at the code so vista isthe right name for this product. – by hacker jayne |
vote(4:05pm est tue sep 13 2005) i vote for tech over eric. – by whacky weiner |
re:vote(4:07pm est tue sep 13 2005) i vote for eric over tech – by vista sista |
vote(4:08pm est tue sep 13 2005) i vote for snoopdog over both of those losers. – by bow wow |
apple?(4:24pm est tue sep 13 2005) they still around? geez. between them and sun i don' t="" know="" which="" will="" buckle="" to="" ms="" first…=""> |
i feel for you.(5:18pm est tue sep 13 2005) it must be hard to keep up the lies and continue cheating the people you work for. management should never compare msce to trained professionals. many companies fell they can' t="" secure="" their="" systems="" because="" their="" admin="" don't="" know=""> |
j. eric smith(5:20pm est tue sep 13 2005) who the hell do you think you are? ever hear of sugarcrm, or mambo? how about darwin streaming server? autocad is windows only, there are no other ports at all, but there are alternatives depending on what you’re doing. if it’s engineering, then you’re hard pressed, if it’s architecture it’s an entirely different story. you know, you’re not that hard to figure out. you remind me of just about every corporate slug i’ve ever met in my life. assertive, overconfident, a person who continuously tries to strip a “lower” person of the validity of their ideas, opinions and lest we forget…their dignity. then you steal everything you can from them and claim it as your own. typical know-nothing. you probably have zip for technical skill. you’re a “managerial type”, in other words, somebody’s bitch. you better keep going with the same old crap or you risk losing your position. you sure as hell don’t have any business moderating a forum when you go on rants and raves insulting the hell out of the posters who disagree with you. you stick with ms garbage, just like all the other know-nothings. but what i never thought i would see is bill gates playing directly into steve jobs hands, which is exactly what is happening with this sorry crap. why can’t they just make two versions: client and server? because windows and office comprise the bulk of microsoft’s revenues, and as long as people such as yourself still spout crap like this and people who don’t have a clue about computers believe you they will remain #1. but people don’t like being made out to be fools, and after some sucker buys one of these turds and his friend buys a nice new macintel, and he sees how os x just rocks the way it does then he’ll dump winblows and tell all his friends to do the same. that’s the desktop aspect, linux is the server side, and you know what genius? linux numbers are only getting bigger because this isn’t 1995 any more. speaking of apps support: with osx on x86 you will see hordes of ports…maybe even some the autodesk line of products, that is unless gates threatens to put them out of business for it…or buy them up like they usually do. either way you’re still full of shit. – by sfx |
j eric smith(6:27pm est tue sep 13 2005) “that depends on which end of the database market you' re="" talking="" about.="" the="" enterprise="" db="" market="" is="" owned="" lock,="" stock,="" and="" barrel="" by="" oracle="" and="" microsoft.="" companies="" in="" this="" area="" spend="" *millions*="" on="" their="" db="" infrastructure,="" and="" they're="" not="" very="" likely="" to="" change="" on="" a="" whim.="" linux="" may="" make="" inroads="" in="" new="" installations,="" but="" the="" old="" guard="" will="" cling="" to="" their="" tried-and-true="" until="" forced=""> |
…(7:04pm est tue sep 13 2005) i think its a stupid idea to put out so many versions. their going to lose alot more main stream people, and the people who want somthing good but dont want to shell that kind of cash will just jump on the linux bandwaggon… i use windows now but that might change here pretty damn quick. – by badgrafix |
lol(7:38pm est tue sep 13 2005) windows vista home $199 retail windows vista home $99 upgrade windows vista pro $699 retail windows vista pro $599 upgrade windows vista more cash $899 retail windows vista more cash $799 upgrade windows vista gouging edition $1999 retail, no upgrage viola, there they are – by wooot |
autocad alternatives(8:12pm est tue sep 13 2005) sfx and jes, ptc' s="" pro="" engineer="" is="" widely="" used="" for="" engineering="" cad,="" and="" it="" has="" a="" linux="" port.="" it's="" expensive,="" but="" so="" is="" autocad.=""> |
better to stick with 2000 or xp(8:36pm est tue sep 13 2005) i think that it is better to stay with windows 2000 or windows xp. i think that this is better because the current version of vista available does not support much hardware and not all software programs will run on it. i think that windows 2000 is the most reliable micrsoft operating system excluding dos. i currently run a prentium 4 computer with windows xp and i have 3 servers running windows 2000. i have found that windows 2000 is more reliable than windows xp. i would not switch to windows vista until servce pack 1 or 2 comes out. – by computergeek1200 |
sfx(8:46pm est tue sep 13 2005) who the hell do you think you are? ever hear of sugarcrm, or mambo? how about darwin streaming server? autocad is windows only, there are no other ports at all, but there are alternatives depending on what you’re doing. if it’s engineering, then you’re hard pressed, if it’s architecture it’s an entirely different story. you know, you’re not that hard to figure out. you remind me of just about every corporate slug i’ve ever met in my life. assertive, overconfident, a person who continuously tries to strip a “lower” person of the validity of their ideas, opinions and lest we forget…their dignity. then you steal everything you can from them and claim it as your own. typical know-nothing. you not only described him, but microsoft as well… good job – by –gpl>all– |
grover(9:48pm est tue sep 13 2005) you' re="" absolutely="" right="" about="" pro/engineer.="" those="" use="" that="" quite="" extensively="" in="" the="" mech="" engineering="" dept="" at="" my="" old="" college,="" i="" forgot="" about="" that="" one.="" it="" is="" a="" powerful="" program="" to="" say="" the="" least.i="" personally="" love="" maya="" on="" linux,="" it's="" the="" shiznit="" for="" complex="" architectural="" rendering.="" forget="" about="" viz,="" it="" sux=""> |
–gpl>all–(9:51pm est tue sep 13 2005) thanks, long live foss. – by sfx |
local tech(10:05pm est tue sep 13 2005) well i installed it and im running vista 32bit home ver. its just like xp home in every way, comes with ie7 and all seems to work how ever its on a dvd rom 2.5gig, the install took 6 hours on a normal basic pc, 2.5ghz, 40gig ata133 drive, 256meg ram normal intel grahpics card. as i installed it i thot it already crashed as there was times where it just seemed to stop for 20 mins or so. but it finly finished. no mscongif, regedit works all seems like normal. ill wait for the first virus/spyware damaged one to come in for repair. ill post how long it takes me to fix with out a format/restore. – by techwolf |
non-geeks(10:59pm est tue sep 13 2005) the one point that the rest of us missed… all ms is doing is further screwing over the average non-geek. the non-geeks will not know what version to get, they' ll="" get="" the="" cheap="" one,="" then="" realize="" what="" a="" waste="" it="" was,="" then="" get="" another="" version,="" and="" then="" realize="" that="" its="" just="" as="" worthless,="" and="" etc…=""> |
nongeeks are clueless(1:36am est wed sep 14 2005) most nongeek just pay through the nose without educating themselves. i don' t="" know,="" but="" i="" don't="" see="" why="" anyone="" would="" decide="" on="" anything="" without="" knowing="" much="" about=""> |
your kidding right!(1:51am est wed sep 14 2005) c' mon="" billy="" boy…….you="" offered="" us="" 6="" types="" of="" crap="" with="" countless="" flaws.="" now="" you="" want="" to="" offer="" us="" seven="" types="" of="" crap="" that="" will="" cost="" more="" than="" the="" previouse="" six……and="" they="" are="" still="" inferior="" to="" os="" x…….so="" sad!="" so="" so="" sad!="" osx+intel="a" broke="" billy!=""> |
you know what(4:46am est wed sep 14 2005) i think im sticking with my win xp pro. – by crabbear |
an os.(5:58am est wed sep 14 2005) is meant to expand the performance of a pc, not limit it. bizzare. ultimat edition. how much for that one? – by apom |
no, an os(6:57am est wed sep 14 2005) is for a person to interact with the pc, a well designed os will perform better then others. a computer without an os is pretty silly unless you speak fluent binary. – by chuckycheese |
another sales stategy – (7:05am est wed sep 14 2005) is that people wont by the lowest product… a company i used to be involved with – focal out of france, sold speakers for cars. they are some of the nicest speakers you can buy for your car, if not the nicest. they came out with a new line of speakers, to go from 3 lines to 4. the new line of speakers are awesome for the money. really cant be beat. the speakers sold like crazy. but guess what speakers sold more? the line above it. got a bigger boost in sales. people dont like buying the lowest. but, it could be different with an os. – by chuckycheese |
re: sfx(8:52am est wed sep 14 2005) who the hell do you think you are? ever hear of compatibility? (probably not, since you love foss so much) autocad is windows only, there are no other ports at all, and it works like a charm there. there are alternatives depending on what you’re doing, but if you’re a tech who’d rather not field 3 calls a minute from your end users regarding errors and compatibility problems, then you’d best stick to autocad on windows. you know, you’re not that hard to figure out. you remind me of just about every foss zealot i’ve ever met in my life. assertive, overconfident, a person who continuously tries to justify their skewed world-view to those of us who live in the real world. typical know-nothing. you know zip about how things work in the real world . you’re a “technical type”, in other words, somebody’s bitch. you better keep going with the same old crap or you risk losing the respect of the linux loonies. you sure as hell don’t have any business sense. you stick with foss garbage, just like all the other know-nothings. windows and office comprise the bulk of microsoft’s revenues, and as long as they continue to make products that both are user-friendly and highly compatible they will remain #1. but people don’t like being made out to be fools, and after some sucker downloads ubuntu and his friend buys a nice new dell, and he sees how windows automatically configures his mp3 player, and gets on the internet without a hitch, then he’ll dump linux and tell all his friends to do the same. that’s the desktop aspect. ms server 2003 is the server side, and you know what genius? microsoft numbers there are only getting bigger because this isn’t 1995 any more. speaking of apps support: with windows on x86 you already see thousands of wholly compatible programs…certainly the entire line of autodesk products, even if the linux zealots threaten to rain down hellfire and damnation like they usually do. either way you’re still full of shit. – by junkthemagicdragon |
i gotta wonder(9:41am est wed sep 14 2005) i have to wonder what kind of idiot actually pays for microsoft software. bill gates stole it. so should you. – by rick veda |
the answer(10:22am est wed sep 14 2005) turn your computer off for two weeks. see if your are still alive. rinse, repeat – by noname |
why all the name calling?(10:44am est wed sep 14 2005) for the people who were quick to call microsoft' s="" names="" for="" the="" upcoming="" windows="" vista="" “stupid”,="" i="" would="" suggest="" you="" read="" this="" article:="" ()="" which="" states,="" “note="" that="" these="" product="" names="" are="" placeholders="" they="" could="" change="" before="" the="" final="" products="" are="" released.="" however,="" this="" breakdown="" of="" editions="" is="" current="" as="" of="" this="" week="" and="" is="" unlikely="" to="" change.”="" the="" current="" and="" somewhat="" confusing="" names="" are="" merely="" placeholders="" (temporary="" names)="" and="" it's="" quite="" possible="" that="" they="" will="" be="" changed="" to="" hopefully="" simpler="" and="" easier-to-remember="" names.=""> |
my 76 cents(10:45am est wed sep 14 2005) greetings, i have been involved with computers since 1970. (ibm 360). i have worn many hats from systems engineer to systems administration to networking to database design. i have used computers from cray, ibm, sun, auspex(actually a file server) dec(pdp, vax/vms), att, silicon graphics, next, apple, alliant, dec alpha(64 bit circa 1992) and pc’s starting with the original ibm + many clones. i have used as many or more operating systems. the truth is gates is an amazing individual. he got the poorest designed os to be the most used. what he calls updates and patches we, the slightly more savvy folks, call bug fixes. bugs are a result of poor design, but this is what you get when you have bill as chief software architect. many of us would love to see microsoft go down the toilet for as many reasons as there are frustrated users. but it’s not going to happen anytime soon. why? it is because the buying public is blissfully ignorant. they have an onslaught of magazines, and tech tv shows that get you “excited” about all of the neat things you can do with windows with titles like “how to tweak your registry” yes, the registry … is there anything on this entire planet that is better designed or more needed than the windows registry? (x-plane v7.5 is a 300 mb app that does not write one registry entry and works just fine) next, bill has always had to put his stamp on things. take c for example, c is a wonderful language that was meant, by the designers to be completely portable from machine to machine. bill gets into the picture, muddying the waters and you realize that the “port” is going to take almost as long as the initial development because there is a different “standard” with respect to ms c compared to att’s version. sadly, the truth is that with all of its faults, all of its inconsistencies microsoft has one of the easiest os installations and third party software installations on the planet. device management and loads of things are done for you. i have not had any experience with apple’s os x, so i can’t say anything about installation horrors. i have used almost the exact duplicate with the next computers of the early 90’s and that was one really great os. i started my unix experience with version 7 released circa 1978 and went all the way up to system v, release 2 circa 1984 where i was forced for economic reasons to move more exclusively to the microsoft intel world. all of the *nix variants have their strong points and their weak points. unix, linux, bsd et al. are geek-dom operating systems. made by geeks for geeks. it takes an enormous effort to “tweak” these os’s into compliance or into configurations that suits a particular need. there are endless compiles and other less than fun things to accomplish. once there, however, it is far more stable than microsoft. the up side is stability and security. the down side there is a significant loss of available third part applications. i have used the gimp and for a freebie it does some nice things, but it is not ps. currently, for graphics i use jasc’s (now corel) paint shop pro v9, blender, truespace, maya, project dogwaffle, texture maker, and a host of others that are not available on the *nix platforms. truthfully, i’d like to see apple port its os x to the intel / amd platform. the best behaved intel machine i have ever used had the next os called openstep. if the open source community ever gets its act together and realize these fundamental truths some things may actually change. 1) 85% of the people who use computers simply don’t care about what is under the hood. above all they don’t want to compile anything. when installing anything they just want to hit the “next ->” button and go on. 2) change direction and make the os even friendlier, even if you have to revamp everything that currently exists. the idea being beat bill at his own game (except with a stable os underneath) 3) realize that the more people you can “attract” with features the more third party vendors will take notice and start porting their popular apps. point being, if 30% of the current windows users migrated third party folks would be there. 4) work on compatibility issues, the more compatible, the greater the incentive for someone to change. 5) above all make migrating as painless as possible. the bottom line is this, we will always have these “religious” wars … unix is better than dec, sun is better than hp, c++ is better than objective c, apple is better than … and on and on. from my standpoint, i’ll probably not by any of the new “vistas”. why? because as a true system administrator i’m already peeved at the way xp limits my abilities. i delete files that “magically” reappear, i often get access denied, or “file is being used by another program … when in fact it is not. the newest flavor takes even more control away. the last person i want in full control of my computer is bill. many regards, – by wizzie |
6 hrs?(10:58am est wed sep 14 2005) dude it took you six friggin hours to install vista? lol…took me about 1 on a 2.2 ghz 512mb ram. and i dont figure yours will run very good to say the least….256mb is bare minimum for vista. its a power hungry os…i used it for about 2 days…then formatted and threw the disc in the friggin trash!!! – by smokey |
re: sfx(11:25am est wed sep 14 2005) “who the hell do you think you are?” i' m="" j.="" eric="" smith,="" the="" guy="" who="" is="" taking="" you="" to="" school=""> |
re: wizzie(12:16pm est wed sep 14 2005) “i delete files that “magically” reappear, i often get access denied, or “file is being used by another program” here here!! anyone else uninstall stuff on xp just to have it come back like jason in the friday the 13th movies?? heh. – by geekzilla |
re: geekzilla(12:28pm est wed sep 14 2005) yep. the links folder in my favorites (ie) is the bane of my existence. i have my favs organized in more descriptive folders, so i just delete ' links'.="" everything's="" fine="" for="" a="" while…="" it="" might="" be="" a="" month,="" it="" might="" be="" a="" day,="" but="" i'm="" always="" left="" with="" the="" cold="" knowledge="" that="" it="" will="" come="" back.="" it="" always="" comes=""> |
in all honesty…(1:23pm est wed sep 14 2005) i think the home market will be the deciding factor in this discussion. the (average) home user wants the cheapest, easiest, most functional product available meaning that they will take whatever they are given “in the box.” if given a choice, they will balk and probably go for the cheapest one due to their lack of understanding regarding the loss they are taking. however, many customers who buy this new vista will find after using it for a bit that the reduced functionality brought on by their buying choice pisses them off. then they will notice that this new vista limits their choices and options regarding certain audio listening choices, and a wide array of video applications/uses/playing due to the drm and copyright protection that has been built in and locked into the os. the customer will also be more upset when they find they have no way around it, and no say in the matter. at that point, i believe linux may seem more attractive to the general consumer and begin to take a larger bite out of ms market share. – by blackbird |
re: junkthemagicdragon(1:33pm est wed sep 14 2005) dude, so sorry about that. here is a link you can put in there the next time it comes back. – by geekzilla |
wizzle(1:37pm est wed sep 14 2005) if you thought next made microsoft' s="" os="" look="" like="" crap,="" you="" should="" definitely="" take="" a="" look="" at="" os="" x.="" it's="" next,="" all="" grown="" up.="" and="" it="" makes="" xp="" look="" like="" a="" 7th="" grade="" science="" fair=""> |
re: if you thought next made…(3:12pm est wed sep 14 2005) i' ve="" seen="" it="" at="" a="" very="" limited="" level="" at="" one="" of="" the="" stores="" in="" town.="" yes,="" it="" is="" very="" nice=""> |
wizzle.(3:40pm est wed sep 14 2005) i' m="" not="" sure="" if="" you="" are="" joking,="" but="" os="" x="" can="" use="" most="" any="" mouse="" with="" most="" any="" configuration="" of="" buttons.=""> |
one version anyway(6:04pm est wed sep 14 2005) so it will be pretty much like it is now, with corporates buying the pro (ultimate) version, and home users using the dodgy copy of pro that their friend of a friend bought when then went to thailand for a shopping holiday. – by pegleg |
sigh….(6:38pm est wed sep 14 2005) ok, you can take me to school, it’ll save me some money on gas. then when we get there i can beat you at any game you want to play and then when you start woofin shit like the momma’s boy crybaby that you are i’ll take your lunch money too. my point with that statement is that you’re a child, eric…ohh…sorry….j. eric. actually, i’m not a “zealot” or “smug” at all. i’m actually a very friendly, well-liked person. i used to work in the it industry but lying, back-stabbing micro managers with no real world know how shut down the site and sent it to india. now they’re paying for it, and i think it’s pretty funny. ok, so today in class we’re going to go over some of your statements: “sugarcrm: yes, and it does not fit with what we needed” but it is an extremely viable solution, no? of course it is. and i know what sales force is, and for the cost of that pile of crap you could use sugarcrm and program as many custom modules as you would ever need for it for integration. “mambo: mambo seemed too much “in development” for our tastes.” so develop it and contribute. help somebody out, oh wait….that’s the antithesis of for idiotology. “dss: we have no need for streaming content, so i don' t="" understand="" why="" you="" mentioned=""> |
by switch already!(7:21pm est wed sep 14 2005) a small correction is is wizzie not wizzle. and yes i was ignorant of the fact that the apple os could support a standard 3 button mouse. i used to program both the next and the older apple (lisa' s)="" and="" the="" machines="" that="" i="" saw="" in="" the="" store="" were="" apples="" w/single="" buttons="" so="" i="" assumed="" incorrectly="" that="" apple="" was="" still="" rigid="" in="" that=""> |
there will be (7:54pm est wed sep 14 2005) 14 versions in the end… all the above mentioned versions available without windows media player. – by pvtryan |
os philosophy 101(8:32pm est wed sep 14 2005) “leaders are best when people scarcely know they exist not so good when people obey and acclaim them worst when people despise them. fail to honor people, they fail to honor you. but of good leaders who talk little, when their work is done, their task fulfilled, the people will say: “we did this ourselves” lao-tzu, circa 600 b.c. i' ll="" leave="" it="" up="" the="" discerning="" reader="" as="" to="" which="" operating="" systems="" (and="" their="" creators)="" are="" doing="" the="" best="" job="" of="" striving="" toward="" this=""> |
asterix?(8:39pm est wed sep 14 2005) did someone mention asterix? that crazy gaul... what' s="" he="" up="" to="" now?=""> |
stupid semi-colons…(9:14pm est wed sep 14 2005) …got dropped from my quote, make me seem like old chinese fool. pfft! – by anonentity |
very good site !(9:24pm est wed sep 14 2005) i guess i will be bookmarking this site . it really does beat “in a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates ?” “linux the choice of the intelligent generation .” – by eliteuser67 |
linux user(10:49pm est wed sep 14 2005) ” why would you want windows server to use *nix commands, when you can get linux? – by linux user” for the same reason that i install mks tools on the windows boxes i work on to make a living as a software engineer: it makes me more productive. if i' m="" a="" long-time="" unix="" admin="" who="" has="" to="" administer="" windox="" boxes,="" being="" able="" to="" hit="" the="" command="" line="" with="" all="" my="" usual="" arsenal="" of="" shell="" scripts="" is="" just="" pure="" bliss.="" it="" takes="" a="" thankless="" job="" and="" makes="" it="" a="" wee="" bit="" more="" tolerable.=""> |
windox?(11:17pm est wed sep 14 2005) that' s="" a="" new="" typo="" for="" me.="" *grins*=""> |
re: sfx(11:21pm est wed sep 14 2005) now that you' re="" done="" with="" your="" petulant,="" pointless="" little="" rant,="" will="" you="" do="" everyone="" a="" favor="" and="" just="" shut="" up?="" or="" will="" you="" continue="" to="" make="" a="" fool="" of="" yourself="" in="" front="" of="" everyone="" here?="" personally,="" i="" want="" you="" to="" keep="" talking.="" the="" more="" you="" open="" your="" mouth,="" the="" more="" you="" expose="" what="" a="" total="" friggin="" nutcase="" you="" are.="" you're="" amazing!="" do="" you="" froth="" when="" you="" type?="" i="" mean,="" really,="" you="" must="" be="" sweaty="" after="" venting="" your="" spleen="" so=""> |
eric(11:25pm est wed sep 14 2005) you do very well toting the moderate line, but your credibility goes flying out the window the instant you let yourself get sucked into personal attack. stick to arguing the point and not insulting the person and you'll crush 'em every time. – by trane francks |
if lunix is sooo goood….(6:45am est thu sep 15 2005) how come 99% of the world still doesn't use that nerdy shit ? this was a thread about vista in 7 versions, not a chance for you sad little open source loosers to sprout on about how your pet flavour of some cobbled together osx wanna-be is going to rise up and rule the world. it ain't. until it grows up and actually installs and works for the 90% of peecee users who, frankly, don't care as long as they can send email, surf porn and do whatever their cube farmer tasks them with doing – by get over it |
wizzie(8:39am est thu sep 15 2005) you do know it's been ported to intel x86 and will be out next year, right? – by switch already! |
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j. eric smith only spouts fud and insults(10:37am est thu sep 15 2005) he's wrong and acts like a baby. he never has anything to say about the subject, windows vista to come in 7 versions. yet, he brings up autocad over and over. he doesn't even remember the truth. i think ms licensing hurt ms more than people realize. there are a lot of business users that now know ms lies. they feel cheated and will no longer follow ms orders. many are getting tired of being berated every time they consider using a non-ms product. the men in black golf shirts don't scare management anymore with their threats of arrest. management is turning away from the fud screaming faces and looking for better choices. if the user isn't a os guru, then he won't notice the change to linux. if he is an apps guru, switching between gimp and photoshop would be easy. if ms were gone tomorrow, few would notice. – by sad |
geez(11:09am est thu sep 15 2005) “if ms were gone tomorrow, few would notice” – sad i cannot even begin to comprehend the massive void of common sense that spawned that statement. – by junkthemagicdragon |
if ms were gone tomorrow, msce would notice(11:30am est thu sep 15 2005) but their users would only notice better admin. common sense must mean follwing ms orders. screenshot tours – by so |
ummmm(11:32am est thu sep 15 2005) linux users are finatics and should be considered a cult. one day they are going to all get together and drink a lot of kool aid and we will never here from them again. everyone hates the rich guy! – by daddy |
eric(9:49am est fri sep 16 2005) you *seem* to have it all firgured out when it comes to your career and technology but as many of us would agree you have much to learn about tact and what is truly important in life? it's sad to see someone as sharp as you be so hatefull and full of malice towards others. do you treat your family to all of this hate and anger? hope you don't use the same rule to measure that three year old daughter. poor kid. – by thevinman |
re: by sad(11:57am est fri sep 16 2005) “if ms were gone tomorrow, few would notice” there is not a more idiotic statement on this entire thread. – by happy |
gimp=photoshop?(11:58am est fri sep 16 2005) not – by gimp & ps user |
this is the point you're missing eric…(12:16am est mon sep 19 2005) …and it's a pretty big one. “yep, that’s all you know, and you sure as hell didn’t come from nothing. you say you live in reality but the truth is that you don’t even begin to have a grasp on it. you look at the world through a very filtered view, which is the mindless status quo. i own my own business j., you aren’t the only one (if that’s even at all true). and you know what? if it wasn’t for foss i wouldn’t even stand a chance in hell. that’s the point you’re missing, eric. your mentality is to beat on the little guy and maintain the powers that be. bill gates is always right because he’s rich…yada, yada. well hey, guess what? i’m not that superficial, actually i’ve been get my honorable ass beat by lying, over privileged silver spoon slime like you my entire life up until now and i’d rather die than become like you.” while you may be right about compatibility issues (i really can't say, i don't know all that much about cad software), often the real motivator for using linux is money. lots of new startups simply can't afford the ms universe, and linux & co. get the job done. and with increasing frequency i see large corporations or government agencies switching more of their systems from ms to linux for the same reason: the difference in cost simply outweighs the compatibility and convenience benefits. regardless, in the end your arrogance and terrible attitude portray as a spoiled child rather than an experienced systems administrator. no, i'm not a linux *zealot*. i myself use my computer for gaming, and hence i find myself using windows. but up until this point i've continued using win2k even with xp pro corp. at my disposal, and i don't see that changing any time soon, whether for xp, vista, or anything else ms throws out. in the end, my digital freedom will be of far more value than a few computer games. “how come 99% of the world still doesn't use that nerdy shit ?” really, that's always the most lame logic fallacy that always shows up. mcdonalds also consistantly gets more business than any other fast food, yet their food is generally rated worst in any comparisson (i personally can think of at least ten fast foods that have significantly better food, and the critics agree). as to why “99% of the world doesn't use linux” it's really very very simple. first, as wizzie posted, 85% (or at least a very high percantage) of people don't care what's under the hood. second, most home users lack the skill or intelligence, let alone the initiative to build or set up their own machine and are thus restricted to buying some prefab machine, *99%* of which come with some version of windows on them. in addition to this, when you buy a prefab machine you also reap some of the volume licensing discounts ms passes on to major computer manufacturers and as a result most home computer owners don't feal a huge price hit by using windows. – by endo |
gaining knowledge/waisting time(12:52am est mon sep 19 2005) the benefits of forums are learning of other's knowledge, which is a gain. on the contrary, the majority of info read is a waist of time, due to the lack of credentials to be proven of the posters. 25-year old foreign college student in the u.s. from germany p.s: imagine the world without “man-made” electricity, there wouldn't be any integrated circuits (modern computers). what would you guys speak about then (meant without sarcasm)? stop waisting your time educating others, without receiving a useful benefit. now i just have waisted my time!! ^_~ – by christopher |
why complain about linux?(5:18pm est fri sep 30 2005) blah blah blah – this is the same old sh*t i constantly hear… if microsoft produced applications for linux then they would work, but because they dont, they dont work. geez – stop whining that if you use linux you wont be able to play 99.9% of games – its called wine (windows emulator) – so, actually, you can run nearly 99.9% of windows apps in linux, but not vice versa. windows hasn't even managed to read linux partitions yet – but linux can read windows ones :) thats 2-0 to linux :d isn't it about time microsoft produced a free version (i know, we all use 'free' versions – but i mean legal ones – under the gpl.) every linux system is free, and it comes bundles with almost every application you want. (not paying £150 for xp, then £400 for ms office, and then £40 for ms plus, etc etc etc…) if you went the legal way around things – you could end up spending around £1000 on software alone! – and microsoft wonder why people pirate software. what we need is for computer manufacturers to start installing linux as standard – maybe on a second partition – just to get users into it – even if they still install windows – just let people try linux rather only showing them one side of the grass! one more disadvantage of windows – how long does it take to set it up with all software – about 6 hours – maybe more… with linux, it takes about an hour – and that even includes it automatically setting up your printer! what i recommend. get knoppix from (it wont install, it runs entirely from a bootable cd), and try linux. you might actually like it, rather that constantly shoving £20 notes up bill gates a*s all the time. – by bm systems admin… |
i want new version of widows vista's bootable cd purchase(1:05am est sun oct 23 2005) i want new version of widows vista's . i want to purchase bootable cd of windows vista. please send me price of this. – by kiran r divate |
thanks(11:45am est fri jan 06 2006) excellent and very informative site thanks for the information. – by andy |
still copying(3:01pm est fri jan 13 2006) i like windows and mac os for different reasons, but look what microsoft has done! i can't beleive it! i just can't! it's one thing to steal an entire idea of a visual operating system from another company (like microsoft did to apple), but it's quite another to continue copying! microsoft, with this new “windows vista” is copying apple's mac os x in every way! now microsoft has their own version of widgets, a very similar glassy-looking graphic style, they are emphasizing music, & rolling out their version of the itunes music store! for anyone who uses mac os x and any of apple's recent apps., you'll discover striking similarities- they make me want to “puke”! microsoft should try be more original instead of a copy machine. apart from that, it will at least be an up-to-date addition to the market. if windows vista didn't look just so darn familiar, it might be pretty cool, but i still just can't beleive! – by disappointed |
glass half full(11:16pm est mon may 22 2006) …of poison. as a developer i hust hope that there aren't more inconsistancies between them. as well as slower and more ineffiecient ways of doing the same thing we can do now. it doesn't appear so though. – by bitter and twisted |
glass half full(11:17pm est mon may 22 2006) (couldn't find the f7 spell check in ie ) ) – by bitter and twisted |
sfx and j eric smith: chill dudes…(6:47am est wed may 31 2006) while i agree with sfx in principle he didn't have to be rude to smith in the way he delivered his argument. i am a mac user with experience both profesionally and personally in other os's including windows (i give support to windows users for email mainly as i run a small isp). mr smith. you really cannot use the market share argument when you talk about windows, mac os x and professional creative software like autodesk's line of products as there are many reasons why os market share proves nothing in this case. here are many reasons why market share proves bugger-all in any pro user environment. 1) for a start market share in general is flawed and not a true indication of installed user base (which is what really counts isn't it?) many licences for basic versions of windows are never even used as microsoft bullies vendors into bundling a basic version of windows onto the majority of pc's sold and a number of people upgrade it to a more capable version of windows like xp pro for example and that constitutes 2 licences sold for microsoft but really only one user. (my opinion is pc's should come os free and the user should choose what os flavour they want at the time of purchase being given the pro's and cons of each os available including linux.) 2) a number of pc's are bought with a basic version of windows on them but some users format the drives and install a linux distro. 3) the vast majority of windows boxes are glorified email collectors and word processors in large corporations and small businesses and not in use by creative professionals so can't really be counted regarding pro creative apps. 4) a user traditionally has to upgrade their pc every two to three years when doing heavy number crunching as pc's have a fairly short shelf life and it would automatically incur another licence sale (or two – see reasons above) of windows. 5) macs can have a massive shelf life and as proof i have a g4 dual 500mhs power mac under my desk which runs the latest os x happily (and not noticeably slowly) that i use as a test bed for the sites i design with my dual 2.5ghz g5. it runs apache/php/mysql etc… this g4 model was introduced in july 2000 so it is nearly 6 years old. i also have an original white ibook 500mhz g3 which also happily runs tiger and only has 350mb ram. i can surf the net. do a bit of coding and get email with it is i so wish but i don't get away much to use it due to work constraints. 6) for the above reasons there are reports that state that the installed user base of macs is around 12% – 15% 7) web statistics prove nothing either as people go to the sites that are related to what they do or what os they use and a lot of mac based design houses will use a pc for the internet as it's expendable and keep their macs off the net in case of viruses and other malware (many print design companies are basically uneducated in the issues surrounding malware and it as there are not any real viruses or spyware that exploit os x due to better security by it's unix design). 8) another thing to take into consideration is the actual os user base and market share for the creative professional market when talking about expensive creative apps. i can't see more then 10% – 15% of creative professionals in the print and multimedia industry using windows and it's probably equal numbers in web and 3d and at least 20% in the architectural design market. my thinking is that most top pro's use macs and a great deal of the post-graduate start ups learned on macs so will either buy a mac because that's what they know or if they are strapped for cash buy a windows pc due to perceived cost of ownership being better on a pc (which in reality is better on mac systems). i know a few people that started on pc's and went mac and don't regret their decision to switch or the learning curve the switch created one bit. so if we are generous to microsoft and estimate that the installed userbase for windows in the creative market is 50% then supporting os x is a no brainer and why autodesk stopped supporting the mac in pre os x days with their autocad product is unfathomable. one last thing. apparently the cost of support needed to support a windows based customer by a software vendor for a product due to things like peripheral compatibility issues and os bugs on windows is around two to three times as much as it is to support a similarly skilled mac user and sometimes the cost divide even worse so the profit made from the sale of a licence to a mac user can be many times more than that of a windows user so if they only sell 20% as many mac software product licences to mac users they could still make the same or more profit than they do selling software to pc users running windows. so boys – play nice please and eric… i suggest you get a mac as vista will undoubtably be just as flawed as xp. os x is apparently still not perfect but it's the nearest you are going to get currently – by randy |
far past os arguments(4:17am est wed aug 30 2006) i was just looking for information through google to solve an issue and found this thread, and got sucked right into it. i cannot believe any site hoping to be thought of respectfully by any community wouldn't have already fired j. eric “turd with legs” smith. by the way, mr. 95 pound, delusional, heavy-weight, drama queen: don't bother to reply, i make more money than you, most likely have a higher iq than you (unless you can top 171), and i'm quite certain if you stand in my yard i can kick the shit out of you. making a good argument and then covering it in the crap you're spewing, i'd love to club you like a seal. any point you were trying to make was hopelessly lost in your frothing at the mouth rhetoric. to be as pathetically insecure as you are, i guestimate you're probably a virus writing little punk who's dick curves hard left, and who hasn't had his face near a woman's vagina since they cut your cord. delusional arrogance such as yours is so entertaining though. yep, i'd have fired you right after kicking your ass. now, whether or not this post makes that thread is immaterial, because i will be reporting j. eric smith as abusive beyond belief. – by vidharr |
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